Archive: Around Town

	Last week: why Hartz resigned and what's wrong with education in New York. This week: A look back at four years as principal.

When we interviewed Eric Hartz a few weeks ago he spoke passionately about how New York has so broken the education system that it has become impossible for teachers and administrators to function in their traditional roles as educators.  He spoke just as passionately about his four years as Lansing High School Principal.  Here is what he had to say.


Lansing Star: When you came in as principal you garnered a reputation first and foremost for ramping up discipline in the high school.  Looking back what would you say your major accomplishments were and what you were most proud of?

Eric Hartz:  I'll be honest with you.  I feel my biggest contribution to this district has been safety and security of students.  I've felt I've had a huge impact on that in four years.  My discipline was all geared toward the safety and security of students.

You want to flash back: my daughter graduated the year I came in.  So I had some inside information on a lot of things.

We used to open doors here at six in the morning and kids could walk into this building and be unsupervised for hours.  One of the big moves I made was to close the doors until 7:20 when teachers are here.  A lawsuit is what we did not need.  Pregnant girl, fight... pick your lawsuit.

That was one of my biggest moves.  You know that we moved an office that was centrally located in the school so far back in a corner that you couldn't find the principal to the front entryway.  If you look back in time -- and hindsight's a wonderful thing, right? -- you look at Newtowne and look at the shootings.  And guess what?  Somewhere along the line we were way ahead of that because we've been a one-pont entry school for three years now.

Way ahead of that.  Our doors have been locked ever since.  So I think safety and security, signing kids in and out with hall passes, not allowing kids to eat in hallways... We had a huge problem.  (Buildings & Grounds Supervisor) Glenn Fenner told me this after the first year.  Just by making the kids eat in the cafeteria we cut a cost of about $3,000 (for extermination services) because we didn't have pests any more.  Spray for ants and roaches... we don't have to any more because food isn't allowed out of the cafeteria.

Sounds stupid, right?  A little thing, right?  But it's a health and safety issue.  So we cleaned that up.

When you look at the building project, I spent hours working on how to redesign the senior wing and get another classroom.  We had a huge building project seven, eight, nine years ago and there was no room in the high school.  I found room.  We built two offices (at the front of the building).  We actually have four beautiful classroomes down there where we had two.

So if you think about space and what we've done with it, we have really maximized every room.  We took a closet and one big room upstairs and turned it into two rooms for testing for special ed needs, which we didn't have.  We turned another room that was a kind of a technology room into another special ed room.

I'm very proud of the things we've done here as far as getting student issues and space and student safety and student educational needs met from special ed to the top kids.  We've really maximized our spaces and areas with less money and fewer people to figure out how we can do that and get what we need for people to be successful.

I'm proud of that.  I'm very proud of that.  We've worked really hard at making sure our kids are supervised.  We added a few aid positions so we don't have teachers as much on lunchroom duties so teachers can teach.  I'm proud of that too.  Getting the teachers with the kids.  That's what you need.  teachers shouldn't be doing lunchroom duties and study halls.  Teachers should be working with kids.  That's what they know.

That's the kind of stuff I am proud of the most.  I really am.



What about the teachers themselves. you've worked in enough school systems to know that the culture is different in each one.  So what about the teacher culture in this building?

Every district I've been in has had top teacher.  I've been very fortunate to work with top teachers.  This district - here's what I'm going to tell you and I'll be very frank about this, and I'm very proud of this -- I think one of the reasons Lansing test scores are the way they are is that Lansing teachers hold kids to a level of accountability that I have never seen in any other district.  All Lansing teachers.

I think it is a culture here.  There is a standard held, that I had to adjust to and get used to, that is set very high.  But when I look back that standard is not unreachable.  It is not unfair.  But these teachers expect students to communicate with them.  They expect students to be the advocate.  They expect students to stick to dates and deadlines. 

What I find is that for these kids it's hard at first, but when they get used to it and do it they are better people when they walk out the door.  Do you want to talk about being college-ready?  Another one of our state's famous lines, 'be college ready' or 'career ready'?  I'll tell you right now when kids walk out of this building I see emails to teachers every single year that say 'thank you so much for pushing me so hard.  Thank you so much for your class.  I'm sitting in a Cornell class in which these kids don't know what they're talking about -- we already did this at Lansing.'

So people look at us and say people's test scores are great because everybody's rich.  No.  Lansing test scores are great because this community works super-hard to get our kids what they need educationally.  That's how I feel about this community and I am saying that to you as honestly as the day is long.  It even took me two years to learn how to work with that because I wasn't used to it.

But I'm going to tell you right now there is also a side of teachers that when a student needs help this teaching staff will be the first one to reach out and help a child.  So there is a care, but there is definitely an expectation.  And they stick to it.

I support that 100% and I have seen kids come through this that are so much better at the end of their junior and senior year and when they graduate.  They say 'thank you for holding my feet to the fire and getting me through this.'

It has character building built into it.  This is stupid, but everyone has an age group they don't relate to and for me it was teenagers.  When I came to Lansing I noticed the teenagers here are stand-up.  they look you in the eye.  They talk to you like a human being.  There is none of this generation gap.. . at first I thought it was the culture of the town, but then I realized it's more the culture of the schools.

It is.  It is the culture of the schools.  The teachers expect the kids to come talk to them. The teachers expect the kids to stand up for themselves.  I see it as a principal.  A lot of times in other districts kids won't come talk to you.  Here -- and I have an open door policy -- kids walk right in and say, 'we need to meet.  We need to talk.'  They'll sit in and whoa -- conversation: 'I don't like the way this is being run' or 'I really support this' or 'I really don't like this'.

We also try to involve the kids in a lot of the conversations, so there's a respect piece to that too.  When you involve the kids and get their respect they give it back.  So there's a part of that that is also a culture that's grown here.

The adults, I think, do an amazing job of respecting the kids.  the kidsgive that respect back.  And there's a learned behavior that if you go see that person, yeah they may be hard or yeah you may not always hear the answer, but go talk to them.  And kids find out that that's how you deal with real life situations, and it makes you a better person when you walk out.

You have to learn how to advocate for yourself.  You have to learn how to take on and tackle problems, because your'e not always going to have a boss you like, you're not always going to like your roommate, you're not always going to like the guy in the cubicle next to you, whatever.  So you've got to figure out how to advocate for what you need to do.  We try to instill that in the culture here.

I think the teachers almost demand that so the kids learn how to be very adult and behave that way.  I think that's huge.  It's such a part of this culture.

And it's known.  So that's the other part: when you come in from eighth grade to the high school it's already known.  Just get ready to tune it up a little bit because in ninth grade the expectations are a little higher.

My daughter and I were just talking about successful job interviews.  In my experience it's look the interviewer in the eye, show an interest in what they do.  Just having that attitude in life is going to help Lansing kids get jobs.


Agreed.  We're really fortunate.  Look at the number of our kids that go to four year big schools or two year colleges.  Over 80% of our kids -- more like 85% or 90% end up at a two to four year college.  Not that that's perfect, but I also feel that the kids that go on to a career or the armed forces... I really feel that when they walk out of this building, no matter what avenue they take, they're prepared for some of those tough avenues.

You're never fully prepared.  You're always going to run into something that you didn't expect.  But I really fell we give our kids at least a shot, an opportunity to step back and think about how they went through high school and the things they had to do to walk out and be a good advocate for themselves.

What about the leadership team, the top administrators in this district?  Has that been a good experience?  Have you all been on the same page?


Yes, absolutely.  Honestly, Dr. Grimm and Chris Pettograsso and Mary June King as Business Administrator... I think we're a very strong team.  We have a lot of people who don't like the decisions we make.  I'm sorry for that -- it's very tough right now with budgets and tough decisions we have to make sometimes.

But if I look at the overall leadership I have been fortunate to work with and (Middle School Principal) Jamie (Thomas) and (Acting Elementary School principal) Christine (Rebera).  And I've really worked with Chris (Pettograsso) my four years -- for three years she was a principal and one a superintendent.  And Roger Dedrick at the bus garage and Glenn Fenner as head of maintenance... that's all part of our leadership team, really.

When you look at the people I've been working with I have been extremely fortunate.  Do we have very, very long meetings about things sometimes?  Yes, but I'll tell you they're always very good meetings.  Everybody has something to put into it.  Kathy Rourke as Director of Special Services has just done a great job.  So when I look at the full leadership team I feel like we've accomplished a lot.

I think Chris is a really good listener.  I think Chris sees things from a different perspective sometimes, and she is able to take that and work with it differently than some other people.  I think Dr. Grimm had another style, which was fine, too.  SO you've got to be flexible.  You've got to be able to move with who comes in.

It's funny, I read an article years ago before I became a high school principal, and now I believe it.  The article was about how high school principals are like assistant superintendents.  And it is amazing -- I do feel like an assistant superintendent, not that I'd ever want to be one.  But I say it from the standpoint of how much time and interaction I have had both with Dr. Grimm and with Ms. Pettograsso, and with the superintendent in Groton.  It's a must to be interactive with your upper administration as a high school principal.  A must.

The communication line is invaluable for them and me.  If you don't, I think you're doing yourself a disservice because they need to know what's going on in your buildings and you need to know what they're thinking and directions they want things to go.  That has to be an open line of communication.  If you can't do that don't get in this business.


What would you say are the best things that happend in your four years, and the worst?


Let's do worst first.  I really wish I hadn't been involved in cutting teachers and staff people.  that was the toughest thing to do.  I'm a personable guy and there's nothing more horrible than having to look at someone and tell them they are out of a job and it's not because of their performance.

The toughest part about me cutting somebody was that this state wasn't allowing us to keep people that I think were really good people for kids.  When somebody is not doing the job well then it's different.

We've cut lots of people here.


40 people in -- what was it, six years?


Yes and I counted 12 or 14 just in the high school.

That's been very difficult for me here.  This year, thank gosh, we didn't cut anybody.  It made my life so much less stressful this April.  But I've got to tell you the last three years have sucked.  that has been my most difficult thing here.

The most positive things here -- there are some students that have graduated that I truly feel that I did not give up on.  And this district did not give up on them.  And we created opportunities for kids as seniors when we very well could have shut the door and said 'We're not going to do this for you.'  They would never have graduated.  They have come back and thanked us as a district.

So we've had some success stories for graduates that even the community didn't think would graduate.

That reminds me of the summer graduation I was present for.  What you said at the time about not giving up on students really touched me.  And here were the students right there in the room.  They had succeeded.  If I remember correctly you had insisted there be a special graduation ceremony for them.

There needed to be one.  But you know, there's New York State again, telling us we've got to get them out in four years.  Why?  Everybody's different.  People learn at different rates.  People mature at different rates.  Why do we have to do it in four years?

So that's another part of New York State that drives me crazy.  But we've never given up on kids like that. 

I'll be honest with you.  It was a real highlight for me to be principal while our baseball team was undefeated  and won the state championship.  You don't get that opportunity very often.  Lansing's only had it twice, in basketball and baseball.  Baseball was a huge one for me.  It was great to watch the kids.

I feel like we have built a culture in this school.  I feel like I have had an impact on the culture to change a school that was on the edge of some discipline, drug and alcohol, some serious issues that we have worked really, really hard to try to get under control.  We're not perfect.  there are still drugs here and other things going on, but I think as a culture and a school and a community we're much more cognizant of it because we've made it very open about the things going on here.  So not hiding things here has been a success for us, too.

I noticed at least three times at the school board meeting the other night people were saying it is hard to find people who want to be administrators right now.  About three weeks ago the Superintendent had said there were about 40 applicants for one of the principal positions and maybe even more for the other one.

Then in the last meeting she seemed iffy about the quality of the applicants, and she and others made comments about qualified administrators or teachers not wanting to leave their current positions to go into this quagmire.  And she implied her team is preparing itself for the possibility of not finding the right candidate and continuing with acting principals for a while.

Do you think the atmosphere in the state is still OK enough that there will be candidates of the level of talent this district has been able to attract in the past?

I hope so.  It's very interesting. I heard it from Chris, too and we had a couple of conversations about it.  They are either very young people who have no experience, or some people who may be over-experienced.  They system we use has automatic kick-ins.  So some of them may not even want to apply but their stuff is in the system, so it kicks to the job.  It's interesting, too, what you get on that end.

I don't know.  I don't want to discourage people, but if you;re going to get in this business right now you need to come in with a mind set.  You either need to be ready to put 75 to 80 hours a week in, or things are not going to get done.  Or you need to start accepting that principals are not going to be at as many sporting events or concerts, and that's not their job (any longer).  That's part of why I am stepping away because I don't believe in that.

You do the paperwork and you do the (state) curriculum and that's the part you're going to pound.  Something is going to be left behind.

The other part of it, too, is because of the budgetary issues a lot of people don't want to move.  Five or six years ago people were willing to pick up and move.  Now they're saying, 'Wait a minute.  I'm not going to do that.'  You either have to move and buy a house, or leaving a district where you have tenure.  People are saying \, "eh, I guess I'll just stay here.'

It's too risky with the budget cuts, because realistically the last one in can be the first one to go.  SO I think there's a wide range of issues.  it will be interesting to see where it goes.


To end this on a positive note: commencement is coming up.  (Note: this interview took place a week before commencement.)  You've been principal for four years so this has to be your first class.


It is.  This is my class that I did the eighth grade moving up to.  I got to speak to the eighth grade at their moving up ceremony.  (Former high school principal) Michelle Stone had me come up on stage and do that.   I am excited to graduate this group because we have been here together for all four years.  There's also a sadness that it will be my last graduation.  I'll have mixed feelings, I'm sure.  But I'm excited for the kids.  It's been really fun watching them grow over the last four years and now watch them walk out the door and see what so many of them are going to do.

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